BUILD A MOSQUE BURN THE KORAN
75NOT AT GROUND ZERO
POINTLESS BURNING UN-AMERICAN
LET US PART FROM STUPID WARS
CHURCH AND MOSQUE IN BEIRUT NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER 2005
“STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES”
This is short and sweet.
1. Bombard all members of congress as well as the president and the NYC mayor to stop the mosque.
2. Bombard all members of congress as well as the president to stop the public burning of the Koran.
It’s pretty simple; both actions are actions of intolerance of two idealologies. One, the burnings may cause immediate protests around the world resulting in the deaths of American troops and civilians serving in areas where the Koran is part of the mainstream religions.
Really, what is the point and what would be the message? I don’t see one, period. I do feel that if it causes a riot in any street of any part of the world, Reverend Terry Jones, should be charged with incensing a riot and the very least charged with manslaughter. If he is a man of God he knows full well the teachings of Jesus Christ, to do unto others, as you would have them do unto your self. Again to Love even your enemies, these are core principles of the New Testament. The revocation of the Reverends issued licenses to perform his Christian duties as this act would be opposite of what those duties are.
Now the Imam and his mosque, if he is not an American citizen roll him up and send him packing. Follow that with a special vote of the citizens of New York City, where the proposed site is to be built and let the Democratic portion of our Republic, do it’s job and represent the Americans. Include all friends and surely all relatives of the lost lives participate in this proceeding.
“A conflict of church and state”?, you say. I disagree as it could and surely would eliminate the possibility of hate crimes. The NYC should find and allocate a replacement site for the mosque, thus demonstrating, “yes you can, build a worship center” just not there as it is causing tensions that may turn violent. If indeed they “just want a worship center” this would fill their needs.
I have personally traveled the subways of NYC and found myself able to travel all over in a short time on express trains so it’s no different for them to travel else where. I doubt on the streets near ground zero there is a “higher amount of Islamic members than any other religion” as a matter of fact I’m not sure that area has a high amount of residential living at all.
Both of these insanities need to be stopped, if for no other reason than “Peace and Harmony”. I grew up in a small town of 3,500 or so in populace and on the same small streets there were 3 different brands of religion and through out the small town, no more than a single mile apart there existed approximately 8 different religions and there never occurred a single protest march of any type among them.
I see no reason for this to be any different. There is always exception to any rule and I see two right here.
If the Koran is burnt, then build the mosque!
If the mosque is built burn the Koran!
We live in a give and take society, do we not? I see stupidity and selfishness getting out of hand.
“Give Peace a Chance” John Lennon.
INSIGHT OF A DREAM
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Concur Dusty! Great Hub!
I have a feeling that Mosque is going up, like the many others going up right now, whether anyone burns a Qu'ran or not. Burning isn't the answer but I sure don't know what is.
Zak, it just seems reasonable to me to face up to the real problem of intolerance to one another, and no good will ever come of that. Thanks for reading and commenting, 50
Hammer, I kinda knew you would, I appreciate you affirmation, thanks for reading, Dusty
pcoach, I have the same feeling, yet there is ways to prove the reasoning behind the location and that is ban it and provide another place, if they don't use it, the answer is clear as to their intention. I agree burning is not the answer, yet obama denounced it and not the mosque, kinda one sided intolerance. So if that's the way he wants to play I say burn 'em as a middle finger to obama, thanks for reading and commenting, 50
Finally sanity in the midst of insanity. Thank you 50. I stand with you on this and we stand with Christ.
Many blessings,
Forever His,
Rev Lady, I value your thoughts and thank you for reading and expressing them,
God Bless, dusty
I could not have said it better Dusty, I will be standing right beside you.
Good work here Dusty. I have mixed emotions about the scheduled burning. I think it would be nice for the prez to comment on the constitutionality of the koran burning, like he did the constitutionality of the mosque!!
Absolutely the most reasonable thoughts I've heard on this subject yet. "Selfishness and stupidity getting out of hand" AMEN! Thanks for a great, logical hub!
Wonderful, sensible, common sense piece of terrific writing. I don't know if I believe it, but this evening the pastor has announced that he will not be burning the Koran because the mosque is moving to another site. We'll see..... Voted up!
This is a touchy subject at best. Why don't we stop the Mosque and burn the Koran too and just have at it and get it all over with. I think it's coming anyway. I know this is not the proper way, but it'll be done with. that preacher is a nut and the Imam really screwed up along with Mayor Bloomberg who should have stopped it in the first place. Great hub Dusty.
Dusty,
Good news as Pop says the Pastor called off the Koran burning!!!!!!!!!!
voted up and beautiful! Amen and Amen! I hear the pastor has agreed NOT to burn the Qurans, this shows America's tolerance. Now, let the Iman show his tolerance by choosing an alternate site to build their mosque. Dusty for president in two years...
Dusty,
you rise to the occasion with good timing and insight..
CS
Perfect, I agree as well. There is a time for fire and brimstone, but being intolerant and hateful isn't going to win any Muslims to Christ.
We CAN argue that both parties can do what they want to do, (as long as it's not flag burning), but they would both be wise to step back from what they intend.
But, this WOULD be a great time for the Islamic community to step out into the light and prove how wonderfully tolerant they are and announce that they bear no malice or ill-will toward the Koran burning pastor, and of course to also say that they respect the tragedy that has befallen America and say it was a mistake to try and build near the site.
Of course, I think we all know that if that was the case, they would never have tried to build there in the first place.
The voice of reason is correct, however, the voice of reason is ceasing to exist in the big scheme of society. I do wish more people did think like you do, is this generation a dying breed? I fear it is, but with people like you speaking out, maybe a new generation will realize they can learn something useful. Great hub, short or not, you are a man who minces no words. Voted it up, up ,up!
Namvet, thanks for reading and your affirmations, Dusty
SheriSapp, I hear you loud and clear, ones about as unconstitutional as the other. From a fair unbiased man you could expect that, but we're talking obama here, thanks for reading, Dusty
rkhyclak, thanks for your affirmations, and reading and letting me know, 50
Pop, I've yet to get the news this morning it's 0400 here and I came here first, if the mosque and burning is off, I suppose this hub was for naught, but to get it off my chest, thanks for reading, 50
Charlie, you've actually nailed my preference where both are concerned, I never did anything for a muslim and now doubt I ever will except just let them go in peace, Dusty
Tom, If they called off the burning and the mosque goes forward, I still have a problem here, with one sided tolerance, so we'll see, thanks for commenting, Dusty
I'm for any religion that promotes the Golden Rule. I'm against any that don't. 911 was an inside job or a cover-up. I'm not convinced by anything our government says. I'm 61 years old and they've lied to me for 61 years. Anyone that says different is living in another world. I hardly believe anything anybody says. People lie and can't help themselves. Thanks 50 Caliber Dude!
samsons1, I thank you for your affirmations but I think I'll stay put out here in one mans land, and prepare for the day of reckoning, and try to make a difference now and then, thanks, Dusty
CS, thank you for reading and complimenting, Dusty
Alexander Mark, all valid points my friend, man will never "get" the complete message as to shoulds and should nots, I am a man and with out the gift of Christ, I would surely die, thanks, Dusty
BobbiRant, I thank you for your thoughts, and I do hope the up and coming generations learn tolerance as it was intolerance took much of my life, now I must rush to the beat of time to make my life right, 50
Micky Dee, my brother, we fought the good fight, I don't know about you but I didn't know what it was about for 20 some odd years later. It's left it's mark on our souls, that's what makes me flinch each day I see small things like these pushing us back to the brink of hate, Thanks Mic I appreciate you, Dust
The only path to peace I think is to abandon Israel, and I don't think that is an option for us. Even then peace is fleeting in this world. I think you know where this is all going. Bless you my friend.
Charlie, Bro' you maybe right about Israel, but from the pew I sit in, Israel is a necessary thing that will be empowered again, and it will be to the dismay of many, stay safe, dust
Bang on the nail Dusty, you summed it up precisely, thanks!
John
Hi John, glad you enjoyed it, dusty
50,
The Koran burning is really an idiotic and emotional response to an aggressive but imbecilic plan. Both are worthy of one thing from all of us, contempt. Its pretty simple neither should see the light of day. Good Hub
Okay, so Islamic "extremist" do something Americans find unforgiveable, so out of ignorance of their religion all the peaceful people who practice the Muslim faith are being punished. In the land of the free, those who own the land rightfully, and are already practicing their religion in that place, can't build on the site.
Then we have a Christian "extermist" who wants to do something that Muslims will find unforgiveable. So out of ignorance, Muslims will blame every American for the actions of these few in Florida. It will not matter that the majority of Christians are not in agreement with these "exteremist."
We live in a country where people are not afraid to burn flags and blacklist people for beliefs in communism and socialism and condemn just about everything people say and do - but then it is afraid about a book being burnt. Kind of reminds of Goliath roaring. What is everyone so afraid of - and since when is there such an overt sensitivity to offending?
Perhaps there is a spiritual fear running deeper through this nation than most people want to acknowledge. Freedom to build and freedom to burn are all part of freedom - no matter how foolish or insulting it may seem.
And then with so many calling for less government intervention, it surprises me to hear so many calling for the government to intervene and stop a mosque from being built and a book from being burnt.
I can't say I would be personally offended by either happening, and it wouldn't surprise me if they are both accomplished some day. If it isn't these, it will be something else. These two religions are forever going to have "extremist" ready to provoke controversy. What a world. Peace.
Ready, I agree, there has been so many wasted hours as well as words given to these subjects while they all could have been better served on positive things that matter, thanks for your input and reading 50
Allen, as you have pointed out, very well I must say, there exists no sanity in either line of thought, be it a mosque or a book burning. There exists so much more that should be headlining in the stead of these two games that are being played. It really should reflect insults to ones intelligence. We have in place roads to travel to block the mosque from going up at the intended site, and if one were to use them, applying their time to the proper channels, placement could be legally stopped as a Pornography store next to a school. The preacher man can burn those books, but at what cost? One person being killed would be too many. For a so called leader to support one of these issues and not the other seems lopsided in fair and just acknowledgments to say the very least. It demonstrates once again the willingness of one group to rise to threats of murder and riots, while the American is held politically incorrect if they make a peep denouncing an ism that for now is a minority.
I haven't the answer to this puzzle except I will not hide my faith in a closed room because it is politically incorrect at this juncture in time, Peace Dusty
Great hub 50. It's wonderful to see that there are still some who can see past the votes and popularity polls. This goes double for the likes of yourself, Mickey and the Vietnam vet. Young boys who so proudly went to serve their countries. You could still be holding the hate that killed so many young men on both sides. What good would that do anyone? Someone has to be man enough to say enough is enough. That takes a bigger man than the one that incites fear and violence. It is not just what will happen in the western countries by this ignorance. It is also about our young men and women who are still in the war zones.
Peace and Blessings
Loves To Read, I agree, hate serves no one and breaks the backs of everyone. In the passage of time if I've learned nothing, I have learned that hate boils down to something or someone living rent free in your head. I can't allow that anymore as I've got a life to live free of such encumbrances. Thanks for reading and your words of truth,stay Blessed, 50
Bravo Dusty! You prove that common sense does still exist! Your hub also proves that God-fearing men will still stand for TRUTH and Peace!
Satan loves division! He basks in this controversy--and it is only going to get worse as the days roll on. Keeping ourselves FREE from the hatred and the dis-unity keeps us in God's light! You have the attitude that every Christian SHOULD have, and you have used your voice to speak it boldly! Thank you Brother!
Laurie, I'm not too sure that I've got common sense some-days, but this was the only sense I could make of all this to do over what seems to me as not all that important in the whole scheme of things. Yes I believe you are right, with this hatred satan is dancing with delight! I think his greatest trick is as it's said to "fool folks into believing he doesn't exist, thanks for the affirmations, Dusty
Clear Hub, but it’s message seems 100% aligned with current politically correct, public opinion. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, I question the large negative press coverage about Reverend Terry Jones. Both liberal left and Fox news right condemn and attack him for his plan. Well, he DID get verbal agreement on Sept 9th with Imam Muhammad Musri associated with Imam Abdul Rauf to not burn 200 Quran’s since the Imann agreed to MOVE the mosque. Now I am hearing that this Muslim pledge to move the mosque community center was rescinded from what “appears” to be political pressure from Both liberal and conservatives.
Guys – wake up. These actions are about power and fame (infamy?) and pride. They have little to do with religion or tolerance - which is simply being used as a tool (again) by people with an agenda.
Do you Really think Obama (or Limbaugh) wants their followers to see that some “little Podunk” preacher OUTMANUVERED them in FIXING the mosque controversy? Imagine their humiliation if Terry Jones succeeds and does Not burn anything yet gets the mosque relocated…
It appeared to me, at first glance, that the Reverend simply used the book burning threat to “horse trade” a solution to the mosque location. Clearly no other argument or approach had worked. He may well have succeeded until corrupt & jealous "leadership" stopped the deal… I may write up a hub on this as the real underling issues do not seem to be getting proper coverage.
jman00001, just for clarity, the Rev. had not backed down nor were any reports of a possible agreement to move the mosque available at the time of my writing, but things change overnight, so with both possibilities up in the air, I agree with your take as it stand right now. I'll wait and see what tomorrow will bring, good Lord willing,
Thanks for reading and commenting your thoughts, 50
Stirred up a hornets nest! Got a lotta differring views in the comments so far. 2 cents from me. I am generally in agreement with A M. I am not insensitive to the feelings of those who would oppose the construction but I believe there are higher principles involved in the debate than peoples feelings. I also would be in opposition to the idea of burning korans but support the right of the quacks that would do such a thing. They know that they might as well put a bulls eye on their forheads. The fact that it would endanger Americans overseas makes it even more despicable but the real question is is it lawful to do so? I'm with you that they should be culpable for any violence incited by their actions. What I see being overlooked is how no one is standing up to the "radical?" Islamists to question their desire for violence at the threat of burning books, or moving the mosque. If it is a peaceful religion where are the fundamentalists that should be the voice of reason? This so called bridge builder of an imam should be using his 15 minutes of fame to denounce such thinking. To equate protesters of the mosque with the terrorist ways of the radical supporters is insanity. The threat that the muslim world will explode if the mosque is moved shows the true colors of the thinking of these people. The protesters are peaceful, the supporters are full of thinly veiled threats that would suprise no on if they were carried out. The time to hide and shrink back is over. This behavior and rhetoric MUST be denounced by all. OK so it was a little more than 2 cents.
fred, If I'm reading you right, political correctness has catered to the few too long. If there rises problems from the few to operating the country, the country bows to them rather than ripple the waves of a small pond, they allow tsunamis in the big sea of this country. That makes no sense and never has to me, but as a whole the American public endures it. Why? The threat of violence just makes them terrorists and with the help of the media they hold America hostage. It's a shame that the so called leader of the US is condoning the mosque and condemning the burning it's a one way street, 50
50, your hub tells me we,re in more trouble than i realized.What kind of a man can call hinself a preacher and threaten to burn another,s bible? The Koran is not our belief, but it,s their,s I believe there will be many people of different religions spend eternity with God. I don,t have an opinion about the mosque because, i really don,t know what would be the right thing to do.
I know there are good moslems and bad ones just as there are good and bad in all races.If i had my way there would be no mosques, no multimillion churches, no temples, we would all worship outside. T he money spent on buildings would feed the world, You got us thinking, and that,s good. Well done 50
Outstanding hub and that perfect sense and I stand with you as like minded. Keep up the great writing.
I agree with Pam, you got the point across BURNING the KORAN or for that matter anybody's religious book is totally absurd. The answer is not BURNING the KORAN to get a point across, the Klu Klux Klan has been covering their faces and burning crosses for years to show their hatred towards blacks, all this is going to do is FUEL THE FIRES of hate and racism towards the Muslims.
There are peaceful and good Muslims as there are in any other religious organization. It's the radicals and activists of every religion who TRY TO DESTROY and those are the ones we must fight against. Peace brother, John Lennon had it right, but it never happened.
To build or not to build / To burn or not to burn / Give peace a chance / Let sanity prevail / Do not add salt to wounds / That need time to heal and mend
Always Exploring, I hear what it is your saying, the kind of man that can threaten this action is the kind that drove me out of churchianity, a zero tolerance man. I wonder before this year how many folks gave a Muslim a second thought, and now instantly demonize them all?
Amen to circus tent mega churches for all. Thanks for commenting I appreciate the patronage and good will, Dusty
Pamela, I'm glad you stopped in, I appreciate your affirmations and reading, Dusty
saddlerider, Hello Amigo, long time no see, but I think about you often, John Lennon had a good heart, and he preached tolerance and good will, I miss his cynical wit and wish his dream would come true. Sad it will have to wait until the second coming.
I never thought about the preacher man and the Klan as like minded, but you are spot on with that thought. Our troops are fighting a largely Muslim force, I wonder how many are not Muslim?
Make no mistake our troops are at war, and America is at the mall or bar or piled up some where drinking beer and watching their favorite ball game. Our troops play with Muslim children who are mere victims of our misguided missiles, rockets, bombs and artillery shells. Our troops find solace in helping these non-violent Muslim children and families by giving them what ever it is that they can, they give away care packages of candy and what ever they get from home, I know they do as I once did too, it was a mentally sick soldier who killed because they all looked the same and deep down they enjoyed it. That's one part of the puzzle I'll never understand, the hatred that runs rampant over a spot of land. It is what prompted me to speak out, I heard one time to many about the way folks are acting, this subject has been front page far too long. No one ever gives thought to the sacred American Indian grounds we poured concrete over and built what was desired after stealing the land by murderous force, seems to me that is the beginning of our history and will probably be the end of it as well.
Thanks for stopping to read and comment, Viva La Fiesta, Mi Amigo, Dusty
SilentReed, ah much wisdom in few words, both instances are salt that has lost it's flavor but still burns in wounds imagined by many who have never been wounded directly or indirectly in the instances at hand. Folks crying foul over the placement of a mosque due to it's closeness to an atrocity of men/women. These same folks could give not a hoot over the ruins of Haiti and the dead that were covered by falling buildings. I remember to well the group of American families going on the TV demanding and begging that the building that fell with their children be given priority over others to be unearthed first, as if they were the only ones hurt. It framed the "American attitude" that we matter more than any other, it's sad. Thanks for reading and your comment, 50
Dusty, just wanted to add my respect for you in this last comment to saddlerider. I know you have seen a lot in your lifetime, been exposed to things I'm sure you wish you'd never seen. When you finished the thought with the sacred Indian grounds, the murderous forces that claimed them and concreted them, and then this being our beginning and end - how prophetic it is. I have no doubt you are more right then you probably want to be. Peace.
Allen, Brother and mentor, I have learned a lesson or two from you and realized some I already knew, I know there are things that we disagree one and I'm good with that because it has made for engaging conversation and making me think and that is good.
I appreciate your return and the comment you've left, more than you probably realize as well, Peace and many blessings, Dusty
Dusty: The American Constitution expresses "Freedom of Religion" and as a Canadian I can agree with that. I can also agree with the idea of the NYC politicians saying "We will not deny you your right to worship, we will not deny you your mosque, but not where you propose it. Move it ten blocks north east west or south of where you have chosen.
Brother Dave.
Dave, amazing, I was just thinking about you as I read an article and was coming to my mail box to send you a link and here you are.
I agree with all you have stated, it really is that simple, and along with the way the "now, in power" love to throw money at problems, I would be in favor of them throwing the money to build a mosque for the imam, just somewhere else. If that would shut the noise up, once and for all, over this mess.
I have a feeling that wouldn't do, from my chair it looks like the famous photo of the flag being raised in WWII on the top of Iwo Jima, to claim our victory after a blood bath for both sides. I'll never be convinced that this is about anything but the insult of this nation, and those who died that day. I for one don't or wouldn't want to be surrounded by building reaching so high when Christ comes back and leaves no stone unturned, it would be sight I'd rather see, if I had to see it all, to see it from 35,000 feet in the sky on my way out with Christ. Peace, Dusty
Excellent analysis my friend. I agree with you. Both of these actions should be stopped. Good work!
Hi James, it got to the point I just had to say something as it was reported everyday, like we had no options but to be held hostage by two supposed professors of peace, go figure. Thanks for reading and your comments, Dusty
Good hub with very succinct arguments. Your commonsense shines through! Well done.
Gypsy Willow Thanks for stopping, and reading, letting me know you were here, 50
Amen! Aloha
50 Caliber, this is an awesome hub, we need guys like you with common sense in Washington. This entire thing comes off like a bunch of kids in a school yard, just stupid all the way around.
People overseas lost their lives protesting the Koran burning. They are very volitile society, just about anything sets them off, so the Koran thing really got them going. Its such a shame that people had to die over something so stupid, now that preacher has blood on his hands, and one day he will need to stand before the Lord and explain that.
As for that Imam...I saw his 60 minute interview, and I am wondering WHY he got himself into this position in the first place. He works for the state department, he is no dummie. I have a feeling the radical Muslims could be telling him that he better build a mosque there, or some of his family may end up dead! I guess time will tell. I plan on writing a hub about it and see how people comment on this.
Once again, thank you for your excellent insight and intelligent hub. I loved it!
magnoliazz, thank you for your laudatory comments on this issue, as I see it a bad choice any way one tries to promote it, 50
Well said 50! I've been telling others this exact point of view but some are too blinded by ignorance to understand.
INKcredible, I see it simple and I, like you cannot understand not acting with in the law of the zoning board and the Fire Marshall to stop both incidences, but the ease has been traded for "political correctness" not wanting to hurt the "feelings" of the few and slapping the faces of the "many" who are patriotic, hard working tax payers, and veterans of foreign wars as well. It all is quite amazing to a layman like me. In the end they will go with paying the imam most likely 6 times the price the cost of the building they are trying to take down and replace. Thanks for commenting 50
.....your 'voice' is clear and based on diplomatic reasoning - why can't both sides see this - maybe the outside world should listen to the Hub Haven-nettes here and that Elvis Costello song - What's so funny about (Peace, love and understanding)
.....Strong words .....please keep speaking out - because we hear you!
epigramman, this is another that I had seen so much to do about, as if there was no road to change them with in our Republic and laws, it just need not be so hard.
I agree that the powers should listen to the common man, as it is their job, they were not elected to produce their own views, it's representation and they are failing at their job.
Thanks for reading and letting me know you were here, 50
I had a similar article on a website, but I took it down because of negative comments. Glad to see hubbers more respectful and with common sense. Right on! All these people know better, but remember that Satan is very active, even in our Christian churches. He loves the infighting.
No matter the climate approved or not, I always look forward to the negativity, little ever comes here, 50
Well done job 50 Caliber!!!! I agree with RevLady and always exploring. Next they'll be burning each other for their beliefs, which in some countries they are killing others!!!!!! WOW!
DPCarlotta, I agree they both made good observations, I'm glad you enjoyed and let me know you were here, 50
A portion of the new US embassy under construction is seen from across the Tigris river in Baghdad, Iraq
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/21/usa.ir
How is the lake of fire going 50 caliber?!
White Horse, I'll reserve comment as the lake of fire is metaphoric, but the embassy is not. I find it interesting as once again the news of the embassy either flew under the radar here or wasn't reported on much at all, and the source is from off shore news agencies. I'll have to catch a few of your articles to get a view of who's asking and why. Peace, 50
Dear 50,
I think your article is dead on. Please read my hub Would Jesus burn Qurans and tell me if you think I am off base in your opinion? I have read the comments you have made on the work of many, and just looking at your pic warms my heart. Old school New ideas. Dont get much of that in one package these days. Thanks for warming my heart. :)
Dusty, two wrongs don't make a right. Loved your hub.
christiansister, thanks for stopping to comment after you read, letting me know you were here, I'll have to get over to your place and take a look, Peace, 50
Granny's House, you are exactly right and I suppose the wrongs are ever piling up in this world as often I loose sight of that thought and commit that second wrong, and after all these years of it ingrained in my hide I still make the mistake of the second wrong, Peace 50
Absolutely an awesome hub. I love the writing that flows from the inside of you. Way to go. In Christ we stand. May GOD help us. Thank you for a very fine read of truth. HUgs Galore brother.
It is all not about religion but more about fanaticism and stupidity, which both side guilty of it. Here in my country many religion live together side by side as best friends without involving on each other domestic problem and religion. I wish all country can do the same. It will solve many problem in the world.
skye2day, thank you for reading and leaving such a nice comment. Peace 50
Freya Cesare, You are right, stupidity is free here and many people eat it for breakfast to be sure they blend in with others. We have freedom to choose here but most choose poorly it is sad,
Much Peace, 50
50, this is the best piece on this issue I've seen to date. I've also hung out with folks of most other religions on the planet (being of a non-Christian, non-mainstream religion myself, that's kind of an automatic thing), and it's seldom the faith that's the problen--it's the individual.
Voted Up and Awesome.
Great post .50!
Common sense calls for common sense, and where's the logic in building a tribute to Islam within spitting distance of the spot where nearly 3,000 souls were murdered in the name of Islam? Where's the logic in burning a Koran when we know that will ignite far more than just a book?
Ghost, I agree, I don't do "churchianity" and disapprove of those who call out "Christian" as their foundation. While I try hard to recognize rather than judge, I know I fail and often. I try to live up to "biblical follower" or "Follower of Christ" I fail at both, but reat assured I try and pray often for sight to see, ears to hear and the wherewithal to be correct enough to awake in the presence of my Lord when the separation of sheep and goats is made, by the Father. I'll add you into my prayer and ask that you would do me the honor as well. Dusty
Will, you've chosen some fine words of sense and wisdom, God Bless the and you, 50
50, Great hub on the mark- oh and merry Christmas to you...
TH
hehe
Tom, and a Merry day to you as well, tehe
I thought all religion taught goodness and they have the same goal to create peaceful in this world. Why do we blame other religion. I hope we can appreciate others, including race, skin color, religion and everything. Love and peace!
Your nephew, Prasetio
Nephew Prasetio, I have not studied all religions, but like you I wish all taught goodness and tried to place peace on this earth, but here are two examples of religions and it is more the people that show bad ways to go and the books, Bibles teach them love but they are not learning their own lessons of peace, just displaying bad ways to every one in the world. If they all could just be nice it would be a peaceful world. So to you I wish much Peace and Love and it matters not what religion you have or if you don't have one at all, I still pray that you have good health and fun filled long days, dust
50........Keep Hubing......I love em..
Tug
Tug, thanks for reading and letting me know,
50
This was very well written. Couldn't agree more. I wonder what happened with the mosque? I haven't heard anything for a while......
Stan, good to see you! Bringing a good question as to what happened. It's hard to figure these days as to what happens to many things. I wrote a hub that set like trying to swallow a jumping jack, about a hit put out on a U.S. citizen, denied due process of law, who was, from what I gathered, possibly was vacationing in Yemen, where his family was. He was a U.S. born citizen out of New Mexico. I don't know if they killed him or he returned home and answered a few questions or maybe was placed on a no fly list and hasn't been allowed to come home.
Now the Mosque, was it approved to build? or is yet to be heard by the city commissions office as to meeting zoning or not.
I know many folks think of it as an attack to allow it's building on the location, where from my understanding Muslim worship is held currently and they want a new improved building. Everything is hazy as to full disclosure of all information.
After watching video after video of the collapse of planned buildings to fall in their own foot print and comparing the trade center buildings fall, especially building #7 that was un-hit or damaged in the airliners striking the others it casts many questions in my mind. I lean to the "inside job" side. Investigations still under way, and with , I think. "thermite" being discovered in the rubble indicating explosive charges were set. I frankly do not have any foundation to base a solid yes or no on.
I'm not a Muslim, though raised Baptist, I'm not a Baptist. I believe in Jesus Christ and the biblical teachings of the Bible and not twisted views of any religion.
That being said If there exists no law against a Mosque at that location, I see no reason it should be denied, as long as the FUNDS ARE U.S. in nature, not Alqueda funded or off shore anti-American funds. That is not a popular stand but it is an American standard of freedom of religion.
The talk of putting the Bible back in school, I have to ask "who's" bible? As a kid we sighted the pledge of allegiance every morning "under God, and justice for all" and that summed up religion in school to the best of my memories.
What say you? Peace, Dusty
Thumbs up, Dusty. Good article and comments, even though the immediate event which inspired it seems to have subsided somehow. Intolerance is horrid and unthinking. Good work.
Nellieanna, thank you for the boost! While this article is dated it brings forth the intolerance of the whole ordeal.
Sadly I feel it will rear it's head again. Maybe sans the book burning but I'm not sure the Mosque building has been stopped or just put on hold for a while. I haven't heard a sound about it and hope it is finished and peace rules the day,
Thank you again my friend,
may your day be great!
Dusty - it's never so much about the actual events as it is about the spirit and motives behind and within them. The events keep arising. But as you say, so rightly - the issue is about intolerance and the ideal is about peace. We'll see what homo sapiens are made of. The truth will out.
Thanks - my days are great! Hope yours are, as well!
Nellieanna, thanks for circling back, I hope the homo-sapiens,
choose right and the truth reigns and it's ascent begins yesterday! My days are better if I end them with reading the political news at the end, just before bed, then they don't bother my thoughts of a quiet fun filled day..... thanks,
what is your formula? Dust
Formula 1: I don't take a newspaper. LOL.
But I "get" the news when I want to, I fret about it somewhat, but my personal formula is to make sure that whatever I contribute helps, not hurts, the melee. If each person just did that, it would be a humongous boost for homo sapiens. I watch the news at night, but nothing disturbs my sleep. So I think you're onto something there.
Also, I like history and it is obvious that the trend is not new. This stuff has been the rule since man lifted himself to full height. Then came the inventions to manipulate the earth - and each other - and they increased the effects and spread them. But the underlying motives are always the only place any of it can be changed and one can change no one else's, only one's own. So that's a major contribution, in my humble opinion. If successful, that's one more on the better side and one less on the worser.
Nellieanna, I like formula one, but it seems like have my coffee with yesterdays news a habit I have formed to support a daily hubber that could wait until later in the day where it would be more clear and my contribution a little lighter with a joke in it some where, exposing my humorous side more often as I do like to laugh a lot, I'm not good at remembering jokes and retelling them but at times I am able to interject a funny view, some "get it" others take it as an insult and that would be a mistake as I never want to disrespect another publicly and if I think it must be said I use the "contact" button provided to do that, and I'm forgetful but I don't think I've used it for more than a hope of creating a private friendship, thank you for your fine thoughts today, Dusty
Dusty, I laughed reading your reply at first - it seemed rather amusing; but then as I paid closer attention, it seem not so humorous, after all. I definitely sense that that daily hubber benefits from your support and good heart even if it does mean your having stale news with your coffee and perhaps not being at your humorous best that early in the day. I'll bet it comes across just right as it is to the person, anyway.
Yeah, sometimes humor backfires but it's really all in intention and interpretation. I could not imagine you ever intending to insult anyone like that, so if taken that way, it would be misinterpretation on their part, - a mistake, as you said. And if you felt a real need to discuss anything like that, you'd contact the person privately to clear it up with for a potential friend.
Our 'no newspaper subscription' thing started when we were frequently back and forth to the ranch 500 miles away, often staying there for up to 6 weeks at a time, and then turning right around and going back after coming to Dallas to handle stuff here. It got tiresome suspending the paper and restarting it, along with having mail stopped and then catching up with all that, so we just dropped the paper. Even while we were here, we had consuming tasks to take care of, so it was for the best. I was never so dedicated to reading the paper with my coffee, though I liked to work the crossword. George liked reading it - the Sports & Business sections & various writers he enjoyed, such as Paul Crume. But we both agreed it was easier to just buy a paper whenever we wanted one and had time to enjoy it. We never resumed subscribing, once we were used to not having a daily paper. Now newspapers have trouble competing with other news sources. But I still miss the crossword puzzle! :-)
By a strange course of events, Paul Crume's widow sent George a copy of her husband's work in a book from her personal library. I had found that she had a webpage and it happened to be George's 80th birthday. So I wrote in her guestbook, telling her how much he'd loved reading Paul's column. Next thing we knew, she had the book sent to him! Wow. What a treasure!
Nellieanna, with this new topic follow button, I suppose the world is quite active after dark as this rag tag old feller hit's the hay to listen to the radidio, and news with talk segments thrown in, that seem to put me to sleep rather quickly. I carried on my political hub first thing this morning as usual, I rarely miss a day. I have become friends with the author and feel I must finish the support I've started. I see few if any topics I disagree with, so mustering up support is mostly easy.We all travel to an imaginary bar for drinks and continued discussion. At times I wish it were true and possible as commenters are from all around the place miles apart. It's like your ranch, I'd love to bring my old three wheeler or horse and trail along with you and your driver on your 4 wheeler and see it first hand. It's more desert but I've found, what looks like scrub brush, rocks, cactus and the occasional tumble weed holds much life of a large variety depending here you are. I'm sure yours is different than mine, and I would enjoy it either way.
I thank you for your time conversing with me, dust
50 Caliber
Now after the kind things that you just said about me in another hub, I will probably ruin it now.
To me any religion that would kill over a book being burned is not really one that should be protected. Which is worse burning a book, or killing and injuring dozens of people?
The US Constitution while giving certain freedoms to the people was not meant to give control of the country to the minority minds.
If the Supreme Court is OK with burning the US Flag and speech that says F...k the Flag, then burning the Koran should also be a form of free speech.
Islamists have used or misused the laws of many countries to get a secure foothold in those countries, and now their target is the US.
The Islmaists have a very strict religious law that is not compatible with our civil laws and freedoms. Once they take hold in this country then they will slowly but surely impose their laws on us.
Women are still chattel in the Middle East, and is that what we want in our country now?
This is my opinion.
Thanks
Mr. Opinion Duck, Sir I'm not going to re-read my comments above and well may contradict them with what I'm about to say, as changing opinion is part of free speech, yes?
"To me any religion that would kill over a book being burned is not really one that should be protected. Which is worse burning a book, or killing and injuring dozens of people?"
I totally agree with this take and it is the reason of my not being connected with any main stream religion as I believe they have failed the "though shall not hate/kill" clause of their bibles.
"The US Constitution while giving certain freedoms to the people was not meant to give control of the country to the minority minds."
Agreed, totally, as the word minority appears zero times in the document and if it did, I would find reason to dispute it.
"If the Supreme Court is OK with burning the US Flag and speech that says F...k the Flag, then burning the Koran should also be a form of free speech."
The only reason I disputed this particular burning is that it was intended to create [my opinion] a riot, resulting in needless death here or abroad [my opinion]
"Islamists have used or misused the laws of many countries to get a secure foothold in those countries, and now their target is the US."
Exactly, the main reason not to allow this building, it would represent the foothold in the face of Americans, I have zero problems with a Mosque built elsewhere providing their needs of worship. I have traveled New York extensively via the subway and bus systems. Express trains are available all day and much of the nights to make trips from example, Manhattan to the World trade centers in a matter of minutes as well as many other places. Location for ease of access is pure bull sh$t [my opinion] other religions regularly make similar trips.
"The Islmaists have a very strict religious law that is not compatible with our civil laws and freedoms. Once they take hold in this country then they will slowly but surely impose their laws on us."
This simply cannot be allowed, those that need them and want to live by them need to be where our forces should not be inflicting the western laws to replace theirs, bring all of our troops home. Bush and crew meddled where they had no business meddling. If they wanted rid of Hussein,Navy seals or other special forces acting as assassination teams could have taken him and his whole family out. Same thing right now in Lybia, with Quadaffi(sp?).
"Women are still chattel in the Middle East, and is that what we want in our country now?"
It is not what I want, if the above led to all of these conclusions it was poorly written or understood. I meant "How does one justify the other? In America it shouldn't. Some dip weed Pastor? should not be allowed to start a killing spree, some non-citizen extremest Muslim should be able to manipulate our government into allowing the same reaction to breaking ground for a Mosque at a location that enrages Americans to burn books and eventually kill others.
The complete circus need to pack up their tents and leave.
That is my opinion, is it that far from yours? The kindness I extended to you still stands as I believe you have represented a case and done it well with the shinning intelligence that you posses.
This is my opinion.
Thank you!
50 Caliber
Thanks for the detailed comment, and the only thing that we might disagree on here is who is at fault for killing and riots that might happen from burning the Koran.
My opinion is that it is wrong to kill because a book was burned or a cartoon made fun of a religion. So I blame it on the person doing the killing because they have no justification to cause death over it.
I believe you might blame the person that burned the book because they knew or should have known that it would result in deaths.
As for the war(s), my opinion is that once we are in a war we should be in it to Win. The troops in the war are risking their lives and they shouldn't be deprived of the necessary funding to equip them with any items that can better protect them. Disgruntled members in Congress that disagreed with the war, blocked the necessary funding for the troops. I don't care whether people are for or against a war, but once we are war, then you have to be For The Troops.
Thanks again for the nice words, and my original comment was outside of the point you were making in this hub. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to express my point here.
Opinion Duck, I don't know if we would disagree or not on who is responsible for the killings. This is America the "Republic" a nation of laws. Anyone killing another for the sake of making a point is guilty of murder. Anyone inciting a riot is guilty of murder by manslaughter if a death occurs, but proof that they expected that result cannot be made.
As for our wars I stand behind our troops in the exact fashion you do. I was in Operation Easter 1972 when we were ordered to stand down and watch the war be lost from lack of support of our troops and the south Vietnamese. Sad,
thanks for making your opinion, 50
50 Caliber
If only the members of congress could be in as much agreement as we are here.
Thanks
Not my intention to neglect to reply to your response to my comments, Dusty. I enjoyed it, but since the comments thread turned back to the major subject of the hub, I stepped back for a bit.
If you should visit the ranch, please be aware, - the fact is, I've ridden, walked and gazed over it all numerous times in my time. I'm quite into riding the rumble seat on the back of a 3-wheeler, which I did last August! I have no driver, but I just don't go down there alone nowadays. It would be foolhardy to do so.
It's an amazingly fertile land which nourishes many kinds of wildlife. I've seen no tumbleweeds there, however. There are all kinds of cacti and other desert flora, mesquite, juniper, ROCKS, and even a canyon with actual deciduous trees in it, though they are not anywhere else on the place, whose sole water source is one deep well and a network of piping to various troughs throughout. There are some rains occasionally, which quickly drain off down the canyons and draws into larger canyons leading to the Rio Grande, where it continues it's journey to the Gulf of Mexico. While it is en route on the ranch, though, the deer frolic in the puddles and the succulent plants grab and hang on to moisture for dear life.
It's my pleasure to converse with you! Hugs.
Should read "continue its journey" not "it's journey". I knew that. But it got away from me before I could edit & correct it. Seems to me that lately the "5 minute" allowance for editing grows shorter and shorter! ;-> Seems more like "one error correction and you're out - that's all you get, sis!" Maybe it's just that I make so many typos and other kinds of errors, it loses patience with me! tee hee!
OpinionDuck, amen, 50
Nellieanna, I have enjoyed it. If we are not but I think we are friended on face book the private messaging would be my preference, rather than add casual yet interesting conversation to hubs of a different nature, Seems I have seen pictures of you riding the rumble seat of a 4 wheeler and the "Lost Dutchman Sign" I believe it was on face book. Thank you and hugs to you as well, Dusty
Ah, yes - that picture is on Facebook. But it's The Flying Dutchman. hehe - I admit that it's so remote, it appears to be lost! Directions for getting there are pretty hairy, in fact! grin.
Aye, Ye old Flying Dutchman, I remember now but If we discussed it's location vs the US/Mexico border I've forgotten. I've read several farmers that up and quit do to the violence going on there, a shame as we can get along if the government would stay of it by lowering the gun barrels then focus on getting the drug traders inside the US sellers and buyers. Just a thought to end the killing of our Border Patrol and the people paying to be brought here to get a job. I know that illegal entry is a crime but surly not one for the shooting that is going on. I don't have that answer in my mind. I've stated varying opinions, looking back I was wrong as many I've stated or approved of, all were senseless and wrong. Dust
Clearly Reverend Flinstone Jones is about as ignorant as the Muslims that behave so foul in Afghanistan. I wonder though if the riots, etc - actually had more to do with those "kill team" photos than our "honest" media is letting on.
Wesman, now there is a fresh new angle of looking at things, I'll have to search the topic and read some of the "honest" LOL
reports that were fed to us and I actually don't recall the riots prior to the pastors actions and Imams as well. maybe point me in the right direction would help me study up for a f]digebt direction, thanks for stopping in, dusty
Hey Dust- great topic and fine reasoning.
Intolerance for another's religion goes against my grain.
Burning the Koran is too reminiscent of intolerant regimes- burning witches comes next.
the fact that this hate monger is a man versed in the teachings of peace and tolerance has me wondering too.
will it ever stop i wonder?
I feel the idea of building a mosque near ground zero was an act of sensationalism- stir up some shit here so, half a world away the affair can be blown out of proportion for the ignorant to take up new banners of hate.
our troops aren't allowed to carry bibles in the middle east for a simple fact- "Dont stir up the Natives!"
Mohammad and Jesus are a bit irritated i imagine. Whose God is the true God- or the srtonger God- or the God that can beat up your God-
it's a wonder an atomic warhead hasn't been detonated here, a few tossed back and forth in the Middle East... I'll tell you one group of folks i wouldn't want to be; those folks in Israel. what cracks me up about that situation is they are all sons of Abraham and admit it- first cousins. Family squabbles need stay in the family i suppose.
great article Dusty- you got my thumbs up on this. thanks for bringing forward an intelligent read.
Peace Amigo
greg
Hey Amigo, thanks for the fine complements and dropping by for a read. Not a fun subject I just got tired back when this came out of my mind every where I looked there were news articles fueling a fire[no pun] between 2 issues of intolerance, leaders of people who were charged with showing tolerance and sadly failed, Peace dusty
I like everything that you have in this hub. Thank you. Except, perhaps, for the John Lennon picture.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the comments and reading. Tell me about the Lennon picture, feel free to contact me via email here at the sight, I will respond probably with other questions as well, thanks, dust
Hi Dusty.
I think this Hub will probably explain my problem with John Lennon.
http://hubpages.com/hub/John-Lennon-Not-Wikipedia-
It is all in the public record anyway.
Christopher, thank you for that, I found it most interesting, dusty
I'm a bit late in reading this. In that this is a bit about Muslim faith, I can only suggest that one study the life of Muhammad in order to better comprehend the man and his followers. A study of the Crusades would be a revelation for many individuals.
Jay, I think you are correct in regard to educating ones self prior to hating what they only know from no longer news outlets but political pundits of batting an unknown ball about 24 hrs a day, thanks for reading, dust
Hi Dusty,
Thanks for sharing yet another great hub even though it was published a little time ago.
I am so glad that i came accross you on here.
Your wrtiting style unique and natural and I look forward to a very long time of sharing our hubs on here.
Take care my friend.
Eiddwen.
Eiddwen, the hub is dated as the news doesn't spread it, but it ain't over yet. Thanks for reading and appreciate your comments, dusty
The nut is from here. He burned it. Affies went wild - stormed embassy. Saddest thing - killed Nepalese guards. Sweetets most innocent people. Wonder if that guy is in cahoots with our enemies, and pretended to be nuts. All this stuff will make you paranoid!
These don't worry me none, it's the folks in congress that need feared, all of them, thanks for reading and commenting, 50
In a way this is old news. Actually, it is still not resolved. People seem to be moved by emotions more than anything. Whatever cause requires a long term commitment, or real perseverance to realize gets pushed to the back burner by the next bogus trend.
As a Floridian, in regards to the renegade Baptist Preacher, may I remind you that, "Nuts roll down hill. They all end up in Florida!"
WD, it is an old topic and yet the issue remains alive in different ways, like recent "accidental?" burnings by US workers in some foreign country, I remember it back 30 days or so but not the specifics. I started to take it down but I thought may be it'll turn up 15 years from now when history gets erased and provoke the Beatles to get together for a concert, Ha!
I guess I'll roll into Florida again, I was just there closing out the estate of an aunt a month and a half back or so, I'm again home lost in time, it just doesn't matter here, so I never get times straight anymore. I put notifications on hold and left them that way and I jump about on my RSS feed and the page that pops up or comments on other hubs, finding folks to read. I gave you a follow but it didn't give me the comment box, I'll try again later.
Thanks for dropping in,
dust
Zakmoonbeam Level 2 Commenter 20 months ago
The voice of reason speaks! You know, with more people like you in the world there might just be hope for us after all.
You picked 2 of the most controversial subjects at this moment in time, and handled them both in a way that should both make people proud, and make politicians and religious leaders ashamed at the way they carry on. Thank you sir for giving me just a bit more faith in humanity.